What is the state of your microbiome?

 

In this episode of the Love Your Gut Podcast, I talk to Dr. Nirala Jacobi about the ileocecal valve, vagus nerve, your nervous system, and SIBO.

 

Dr. Nirala Jacobi is a naturopathic doctor (ND) and internationally recognized expert on small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO). She is the creator of the SIBO Biphasic Diet, a resource that has helped tens of thousands of SIBO sufferers around the world. Dr. Jacobi is the host of The SIBO Doctor Podcast and the founder of The SIBO Doctor, an online educational platform that includes a practitioner certification program. She is also the medical director of SIBOtest, providing innovative testing options for SIBO and IBS. Dr. Jacobi is known for her systematic and effective approach to diagnosing and treating SIBO and other functional digestive disorders. Having received her naturopathic doctorate in 1998 from the esteemed Bastyr University in Seattle, USA she brings more than two decades of clinical experience and expertise to her clinic, the Biome Clinic.

 

Topics Covered in This Episode:

 

  • [03:50] What is the ileocecal valve?
  • [05:26] What the surface of the small intestine is for.
  • [08:44] What might cause issues with the ileocecal valve?
  • [12:17] Why is the ileocecal valve important?
  • [16:49] Lifestyle changes for individuals with chronic constipation.
  • [21:23] Dr. Jacobi’s favorite vagus nerve stimulation recommendation.
  • [28:56] Foundational recommendations for chronic digestive issues.

 

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How to release a stuck ileocecal valve.

 

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Quotes:

  • “If you were to remove your small intestine, it would be the surface area of a tennis court.”
  • “The foundation of health is that you have a good relationship with this ecosystem in your gut.”
  • “The basics of health is that you keep good circadian rhythms.

 

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Are you following my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today so you don’t miss any future episodes! I would also appreciate it if you would leave me a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify! I read each of them, and they help me make sure I am providing the content that you love to hear

 

 

TRANSCRIPTION:

SPEAKERS

Dr. Nirala Jacobi, Dr. Heather Finley

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  00:00

That’s probably the primary. I’d say reason that it’s important that it can cause SIBO that you actually can have a population of bacteria that are in this in the large intestine migrates into the small intestine. So that’s probably my biggest concern there.

Dr. Heather Finley  00:22

Hey, welcome to the love your gut podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Heather Finley, I know what you’re thinking, how am I supposed to love my gut when all it does is hold me back. I thought the same thing before I found my own relief for my own gut health issues. I dedicated my life to getting to the bottom of my own gut issues, so I can help women just like you transform theirs. Now I’m here to guide you through your own gut health journey. We do this through identifying your root causes and making sustainable and transformational changes. As a result, you can unleash your true potential. My goal is to empower you with the information and tools you need to love your guts. So it loves you back right here on this podcast. 

Dr. Heather Finley  01:06

Welcome back to the next episode of the loving God Podcast. Today, I’m super excited to be joined by Dr. Jacobi. She is on the other side of the world in Australia, from most people that are here listening to this podcast. But she is a wealth of knowledge. And I am very excited to talk to her today about the ileocecal valve. And if you have never heard of that, we’re going to talk about that we’ll talk about SIBO and all the things that you need to know about both of those things. So Dr. Jacoby, welcome to the podcast.

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  01:38

Pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Heather Finley  01:41

Why don’t you just give us a little brief history of yourself, why you do what you do. And really kind of what got you into this work, I think everyone would love to hear, it’s always so interesting to hear everyone’s origin story and why they’re doing the work they’re doing?

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  01:55

Well, I actually became a naturopathic doctor in 98. And practice in Montana for seven years before I moved over to Australia. So I, you know, was the primary care physician in Montana. And life happened and I moved to Australia, and shortly thereafter, I mean, I’d always been very interested in digestive health, because that’s the cornerstone of naturopathic medicine, we believe that God is the root of the tree. And if the roots aren’t healthy, the treat can’t be healthy, right? That’s sort of our mantra so and I realized that there were always a subset of patients that just didn’t improve, like IBS type patients. And when I came across a lecture, or I attended a lecture in 2011, I first learned about SIBO. And SIBO is a condition that is now really the focus of a lot of patients with IBS and SIBO stands for Small Intestine bacterial overgrowth. And so back in 2011, when I was in practice, and up in Brisbane here in Australia, I had learned about this. And so I effectively learned everything I could about SIBO and brought this knowledge over here and started to educate people about this condition. And so it’s been over 10 years. And we know a lot more about SIBO than when when I first started out. And through that, you know, the the issue with the ileocecal valve as will elaborate in your podcast. That’s one area of potential underlying causes for SIBO. But there are definitely others.

Dr. Heather Finley  03:33

Yeah, so interesting. I didn’t know that that you were originally in Montana. So yeah, always fun to learn new facts. Well, you mentioned the ileocecal valve, and I mentioned at the beginning, I guess, just to kick us off, what is the ileocecal valve?

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  03:48

Yeah, so if you think about you actually have valves, you know, in different parts of your body and the purpose of valves is to keep different things and different or different. You know, substances in different compartments like your you know, you’ve got your, your lower esophageal sphincter, which is a valve that basically stops acid from regurgitating into your throat. And so the ileocecal valve is a little further down. It’s the connection between your large and your small intestine. And the purpose of this valve is to stop fecal matter to kind of move what we call retrograde movement or move opposite the way it’s supposed to move. So it’s supposed to obviously move down and out. And when you have issues with that Valve where it’s too floppy, you can actually have regurgitation of bacteria and fecal matter into the small intestine. And that is not ideal at all because the small intestine is a very precious surface area, the purpose of which is to absorb your nutrients and also to interact with the microbiome and the immune system. And so We really try to keep that area or the body tries to keep that area not sterile. But it’s meant to have far less bacteria than the large intestine, mainly, because you need that area for other purposes, then then hosting your microbiome.

Dr. Heather Finley  05:19

Yeah, so on that note, you know, people might not know what what do you need that area for, besides not hosting the microbiome.

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  05:29

You mean, the small intestine. So basically, the small intestine is really, if you, if you were to remove the SIRT, your small intestine, it would be the surface area of a tennis court, which is just incredible to think that we have this massive surface area in a relatively small section of the small or of your digestive tract. So and then, you know, you’ve seen maybe the shaggy carpet look of a cross section of the small intestine, and those are villi, those are little folds of mucosa. And on top of the villi, you have microvilli. So all of this essentially, really increases your surface area exponentially. And that’s so that we can absorb our nutrients through the surface through various mechanisms. And like I said, it’s like, it’s basically it’s a single cell layer, that’s that makes up your the barrier of your digestive tract, which is quite remarkable. But the purpose is, we are interacting all the time, with what we’re eating with what’s there. And so the the immune system, which lies right below that level, is constantly sampling what’s happening in your digestive tract, and essentially, over 90% of the purpose or of the job of the immune system is to not react, right so that we don’t constantly become allergic to foods, etc. So all of that is sort of a symphony of events that happens. And if there were too many bacteria, doing their thing, they would just basically interfere with all of those processes. So the body has a clever way of sequestering or trying to keep the microbiome, the majority of your of your bacteria below the ileocecal valve right now, the ileocecal valve right past that is the appendix right. And newer research has now shown that the appendix is serves as like a repository, a little sample of your microbiome, so that if you have some event where you have severe diarrhea and you lose the majority of your microbiome, you can kind of reseed that area with with what’s in the appendix, which is a really cool little, you know, handy thing to have the appendix, but a lot of people that have had their appendix out, for example, which because it’s on the same side, it’s in that same area, they often consequently, have some issue with the ileocecal valve, sometimes it’s due to scar tissue from the removal of the appendix. And then that interferes where the valve can’t close properly. And you can have a little bit of backflow into the small intestine.

Dr. Heather Finley  08:11

So interesting about the appendix. And it’s really when you zoom out and look at really like, all the systems of the body and even like the backup systems of the body, like just what you described there, that really is so fascinating how everything really works together. So you explained a lot about the small intestine and what it does with absorption, the microvilli, the villi, etc. And briefly about the the ileocecal valve preventing this backflow. So, what might cause someone to have issues with their ileocecal valve? You mentioned scar tissue, which is something that we actually see a lot with our clients. What could they have scar tissue from? Potentially maybe besides surgery, like if they had their appendix out, and any other things that could cause issues with this ileocecal valve?

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  08:58

So the most common is any sort of intra abdominal surgery, right, which includes a pen appendectomy, but also think about the commonality of removing people’s gall bladders. cesarean sections are really common. Then we also you know, I mean, those kinds of surgeries are really common also hysterectomy is and then we also have other conditions that trigger scar tissue formation like endometriosis, which can interfere as well. Sometimes what we see is just that it’s not so much the scar tissue itself, but the valve has what we call a poor tone, where it’s not really having the vigor of keeping keeping tight lid so to speak, on the on the self so that nothing backflows and that can be from chronic infections and the area that can be from food allergies that are kind of triggering inflammation. Um, that can be from like parasitic infections and things like that. So, you know, there are a number of causes. And sometimes people just have, you know, one of the symptoms that often are reported in my clinic, when people have a tenderness in that, in that area of the seek ileocecal valve, and they may have had already an appendectomy. So it’s not the appendix, but it’s just a sort of a soreness. And that often then indicates that there’s some overgrowth or inflammation of the ileocecal valve.

Dr. Heather Finley  10:33

And so for anyone unfamiliar, how do you describe where the ileocecal valve is to a patient? If they okay, we don’t know.

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  10:42

Yes, so you find your, your, on your right side, you find your hip bone, right, so kind of find the prominence of your hip bone in the in the front, and then you find your belly button, and about a third of the way towards your belly button, that’s about where your ileocecal valve is and just kind of massage around, you’d can’t feel a valve, you won’t feel anything. But just kind of if you have no air, no tenderness in that area, it’s, it’s probably not a major issue I found, because most people have some issue of tenderness, even even just for palpation in the area. But some people do have some problem, but it’s very difficult to, to actually investigate this, we know we have no proper test for this that we can do in our office, no stool test, or breath test, or any of that will give us a clue, you’d have to do some sort of imaging or pressure studies, you know, with with, probably in the future, when pill cams are going to be more used widely in offices, I think we’re gonna get more information about the importance and research does collaborate in terms of, you know, pressure, like they have done a lot of research into different pressure studies, but nothing that we can assess very easily in our offices.

Dr. Heather Finley  12:04

Yeah, that will be amazing. One day when we have that tennis team that’s super easily available. Okay, so someone is thinking, maybe I have issues with my ileocecal valve, it’s a little tender there. I’ve had, you know, some type of abdominal surgery, or maybe they have had parasites in the past, et cetera. And in their thinking, maybe this could be part of my story. Why does this matter? Why is the ileocecal valve so important? You mentioned preventing backflow. But what are the other issues that can come later on if this is not addressed? Or how does this interplay, especially when we’re thinking about someone that has IBS or SIBO, which is primarily the the patients that both you and I see. Yeah,

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  12:51

yeah, I mean, that’s probably the primary. I’d say reason to, to that it’s important that it can cause SIBO, that you actually can have a population of bacteria that are in this in the large intestine migrate into the large small intestine. So that’s probably my biggest concern there. There’s also a thought about the propagation of peristaltic waves, which sort of are separate in the large intestine from the small intestine. So motility is a different game in those two different areas. So sometimes I see people and especially like, I think the most often times that I recommend the ileocecal valve maneuver, or massage, is when people are really constipated. And they need that sort of toning of the valve, but also of their colon, because it’s, you know, oftentimes, when people have chronic constipation, that they lose that trigger for peristaltic, which is peristalsis, which is often a feeling of the colon. And when you just have a, a colon that’s constantly full a stool, you lose that trigger. And so that maneuver or that massage is really helpful in re sensitizing or helping to retrain that kind of trigger.

Dr. Heather Finley  14:13

And for those you listening, that are thinking, what massage is she talking about? I will link it in the show notes. I was telling her before we got on air, her massage that she has on YouTube is probably one of the most common YouTube videos that we send to clients to watch because it’s super simple and easy to follow. I don’t know if there’s a way to explain it on air for anybody listening, but

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  14:34

just to watch it. Yeah. I’m actually really curious to hear what you’re, you know what you’re recommending it for and what the results are that you’re seeing with it because that’s great that you’re you’re recommending it.

Dr. Heather Finley  14:49

We see a lot of clients, you know, who are consistent with it, though, they will report that they’re passing a lot of gas afterwards, or that they are having To better bowel movements, and so like, there’s definitely something to be said, for one that consistency, you know, just like anything with will really anything in life, but for sure, with digestive health, you can’t do it once, and it’s not going to be a miracle fix that. Yeah, you know, if you’re consistent with it, a lot of our clients will do it like laying in bed at night or before they go to bed. Sometimes they’ll do it, you know, in the morning when they wake up, regardless of time of day, consistency matters. And so we do hear people say like, it helps, it’s, it starts to get less tender over time. And they noticed that they’re actually passing quite a bit of gas afterwards. Maybe like a day after? So is that kind of what you see with your clients too?

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  15:42

Yeah, and definitely more sort of I often or most of the time I use it when people are really constipated, you know, so that it’s just it starts to retrain the bowel. So so every now and then they start getting a spontaneous bowel movement, you know, and they’re like, hey, it’s starting to work again. Because when you have chronic constipation, as you know, it’s sometimes it’s really hard to get this kind of train moving again. And to even on, there’s lots of different factors. It’s not just the ileocecal valve, but it’s great that your patients are getting good results with it. Because it’s just like anything that’s not a pill and not, you know, we like that it’s just using your own hands only takes three minutes. So that’s good to hear.

Dr. Heather Finley  16:29

Yeah, and that’s, I think what I love about it the most is it’s very quick, it takes three minutes, like you said, it’s not another, you know, dietary restriction, it’s not another pill that they have to take. And I guess kind of on that note, you know, obviously, as you mentioned, there are many other things that affect chronic constipation. So what are maybe some other lifestyle related things that you see move the needle the most for individuals with chronic chronic constipation, besides the ileocecal valve massage, hey there, I know you are absolutely loving this episode. But I am so excited because my book, The healthy happy gut cookbook is now available for pre order. This book is designed to help you identify the causes of your symptoms, give you really actionable steps to address them, and help you love food again, and get back in the kitchen. So not only is it packed with tons of info, it’s also packed with over 50 delicious recipes that I’m so excited for you to try. When you preorder this book, you not only get the book on your doorstep on December 20, just in time for Christmas, but you also get access to some bonus trainings and a live q&a call with me in December. So we’ll be releasing more info about that soon. But I would absolutely love it if you would preorder the book and share it with a friend who might need it as well. The link to preorder the book is in the show notes. And also on my website.

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  17:57

It’s a great question. And it’s for some reason, it’s sort of like constipation month, you know, it’s just been like, it’s been so on my mind with like, because they are the way I think about constipation with chronic constipation, is that first of all, a lot of people are just managing with different types of supplements that are either osmotic, you know, agents like magnesium or more stimulant laxatives. And the thing that I find the most is, first of all, it’s great to find an underlying cause, right? So we all like that we all want to know why something is happening to us. And so, from a bacterial perspective, there are different groups of bacteria that are or organisms that are known to cause constipation such as Nathanael brevi, vector smithy, I can absolutely slow everything down to a full stop. Same with the cell Vibrio and hydrogen sulfide producing bacteria, we know that they slow transit, then you have just basically bacterial decimation and your the decimation of your healthy microbiome, then you have the whole issue of digestive components, which can include poor bile flow, right? People that just don’t have enough bile flow, to trigger peristalsis. Because there’s, that’s another big factor, then you have people that are just chronically stressed and have a lot of abdominal holding, perhaps trauma, PTSD, that’s a big factor when you’re constantly in a fight or flight and not in a rest and digest. So there’s lots of different things. And that’s not even an exhaustive list. And you can have pelvic dis synergy or you can have lots of different reasons why you’re not pulling, right. So it’s it’s great to have a lot of different approaches and because I never just do one thing, I usually do, you know, sort of vagal toning, for example. vagal tone is really important because your vagus nerve, which is the 10th cranial nerve that innervates large parts of the day digestive tract, including the rectum, which is the last little section out. And it’s the if you have a very poor rest and digest and you’re not really relaxing easily, it’s possible that your vagus nerve is involved and is not really stimulating. And just the way I describe it is okay, you’ve got your car in your garage, but the door won’t open. Right? So that’s kind of how the vagus nerve can be involved. But that’s sort of it. I have people that unless they do something like rectal suppositories or enemas, they just won’t have a bowel movement. And that just tells me that that for years and years and years, they’ve sort of like are so more and more dysfunctional, that you can’t just do one thing, you got to do multiple approaches to retrain the ball, and it takes time. And it may not get to where you having it every single day, but at least better than, you know, once every two weeks. So

Dr. Heather Finley  20:55

yeah, we’ve seen clients, I mean, we see lots of clients like that, that in order to go they have to take a suppository, or like, it literally won’t happen, you know, they haven’t gone in two weeks or something terrible. And it’s like, okay, this is, and it’s been a chronic issue for 1020 30 years. So this is probably a very nerdy question to ask, but it was a we do lots of vagus nerve stimulation with our clients as well. What is your favorite recommendation for stimulating the vagus nerve? Or does it vary for the client?

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  21:31

It does somewhat vary from client to client. And I haven’t To be honest, I haven’t found the gargling or the humming, you know, it’s just like, if somebody has a really, really like shutdown of their of their nervous system, you really do have to do a bit of trauma work, because it’s also the limbic activation, you know, that is in that chronic state, you can’t just Gardel your way out of that. So there are some different programs that I sort of have recently looked into that look promising, I haven’t used them a ton. But for example, there’s one program called the rewiring program, basically, that is more specific for the vagus, or vagal, toning of the throat, and of the abdomen. And they are coupled with sort of desensitization exercises and all of that. So I think we’re just starting to peek over the fence of a lot of these incredible therapies that are emerging, because we have experts like Bessel Vander Kolk. And, you know, I mean, there’s so many different trauma expert, Gabor Ma Tei, although he’s really specific with Vegas, but Steven Porges, all these different people that are focusing on what can be done so there’s micro frequency specific microcurrent, that can be done. But you’d have to go to a practitioner to do that. So there’s different things, but I like things people can do at home. So I like to do these abdominal exercises and the throat, the throat is really interesting because it is, you know, it has also its own little motility, or the the the esophagus has its own little motility issue. And so if you are somebody that for example, gets pills and your throat stuck a lot, or you get food stuck in your throat a lot, it’s probably some sort of dis motility of the esophagus. So that’s often a clue that there can be something going on with the throat. So there are different exercises where you’re humming in breathing together. It’s very hard to do this, right? Because it’s a whole course that they do. Right? So by just Yeah, keep exploring different techniques to engage your, your nervous system, and to some extent that that ileocecal valve maneuver does or massage does help to manually stimulate.

Dr. Heather Finley  24:04

Yeah, and you’re right, you know, if someone is has past trauma or is in a chronic fight or flight state, like there’s no amount of gargling humming, cold showers, whatever you you want to do, there’s no amount of that you have to address the trauma. And we see clients like that all the time. And there’s programs here in the US that will refer to as well. But, you know, oftentimes if we have someone that’s like chronic, and you know, they kind of say the the narrative of I’ve tried everything, you know, nothing’s worked. I’m always like, what’s going on with your nervous system? Do you have past trauma? Because if that’s not addressed, then there’s really nothing that’s going to move the needle until that is a piece of the puzzle.

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  24:50

Yeah, I mean, I would I would add to that, that you can always use, you can get symptomatic relief, right with stuff, but that’s not what we what we want. We We want people to be totally free of taking supplements and cure. Right? Exactly. Yeah, I would, I would agree with that. And the thing is, with trauma, we do know that adverse childhood events, right do affect our gut, we know that from research. And so it’s not that you have to go and do talk therapy about all the horrible things that happened to you unnecessarily. But recognizing, you know, states of some people don’t even realize anymore when they’re in that chronic state of activation, you know, because it’s like a fish in water, you don’t even know you’re in it. So it’s, I would just encourage people to, you know, reflect on like, what if there are different traumatic events that have happened to you that you feel are still affecting you today, to some extent, and then just further to the throat, and the in the abdomen, you know, think about like, especially as women, there’s so much sexual assaults and sexual issues. So the pelvis is sort of the home of all of that. And with the throat, we often see, you know, you were told not to speak, you’re told to shut up all of these different things. So it’s not that you have to think of a particular event that happened to you that maybe set the course for this. But this can be just a combination of events that may have really shocked your nervous system in a way that, you know, really many of us should just be basically living a quiet life in the country, which, you know, a lot of people can’t do. So. You know, yeah.

Dr. Heather Finley  26:38

Yeah. And I appreciate you saying that, because, you know, I think a lot of times people hear, you need to address your nervous system, or you need to work on your trauma. And everyone is like, I don’t, I don’t want to talk about this. Like, I don’t want to go to talk therapy and talk it up and down for for weeks and weeks and weeks. But I think the cool part about nervous system work is it’s really, actually training your brain and your body to respond to stress and move stress differently and recover from stress faster, and go back to a more ventral not stress state quicker, which is pretty cool. And so the nervous system work, you know, of course, working on traumas, going to be hard, but sometimes the nervous system work is very freeing for people because they realize they have tools actually to be able to help themselves, get out of the chronic stress state versus having to like, think about all the stressful things all the time. Yeah, it can feel really

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  27:37

bad for that. Exactly. I would add also that sometimes talk therapy is very traumatizing for exactly. them. So there are different things like somatic experiencing, and EMDR. And tapping and all the different things where you actually don’t have to put yourself into, like, are talking about any sort of traumatic event where you sort of shocking your nervous system again?

Dr. Heather Finley  28:00

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, we see that all the time with clients are like, oh, yeah, I’ve been in therapy for years. I’m like, what kind of therapy, you know, like, there’s difference between therapy and nervous system work. And so yeah, it I appreciate you saying, sometimes it can be trauma, like re traumatizing to talk about that. So we kind of went on a tangent with like the vagus nerve and trauma, but I do think that it’s really helpful, because that really is a missing piece for clients. And I just love kind of your insight or your opinion on, you know, what you see, I guess, is the biggest needle movers for individuals, because like you said, a couple minutes ago, it’s never just one thing. Like, we’re always doing many things with our clients, and everybody is unique, and everybody’s going to be doing something different. But what are maybe the top three, four, however many things you want to list that you see as like, okay, these are foundational things for chronic constipation, or chronic digestive issues, if you want to keep it more broad, that are extremely helpful. And I am guessing nervous system work falls under there.

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  29:13

Well, that’s that would be one of them. But like, I mean, it’s, it’s very different if we just talk general digestive if rather than just constipation, because but generally speaking, I’d say for the gut, I’d say, find out the state of your microbiome, we can we really have a lot of tools at our disposal now, to understand what what the state of your microbiome is. And just remember that you’re supposed to have this, you know, ecosystem in your digestive tract that really keeps you healthy, with lots of different metabolites and vitamins, etc. And if you’ve if you have a really imbalanced microflora, then your immune system will suffer besides your digest. So in general, besides your symptoms of digestive disorders, you can also have mood disorders you can have, like, what we’re understanding now it’s it’s really the foundation of health is that you have a good relationship with this ecosystem in your gut. So, you know, that that would be number one, because I do that on everyone. Think about if you have, or Further to that, I’d say, if you have a lot of IBS type symptoms, I would definitely get checked for SIBO. Because SIBO is a big driver of constipation and diarrhea and bloating and reflux. And also beyond that systemic inflammation, which we know is the driver of every chronic disease. So SIBO is really basic, or can be a big driver of any sort of inflammatory condition, but also general decline of health. So that I would also say, then I’d say, you know, the basics of health is that you that you kind of keep good circadian rhythms, right, so that you actually have a good amount of sleep, I always tell patients, if I had a pill for, like, if I could sleep, put sleep in a pill, I’d be a billionaire, you know, because it’s so vital for everything, that you actually get good amount of, like really sticking to a schedule, and we usually say be asleep by 10. So you know, and then all that stuff that goes along with proper sleep hygiene with the no screens, etc. If you are somebody who can’t fall asleep, or maintain sleep, so sleep is really key. And then, you know, in terms of diet, I, you know, I love eating a lot of good food, and I’d say, have a clean diet as clean as possible. And then the nervous system that we discussed.

Dr. Heather Finley  31:57

Yes. Yeah. And probably everybody needs some level of support with that, especially considering the society that we live in. Everyone’s in a constant state of stress. Yes.

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  32:10

Especially in America right now. You guys are going through a hard time. Yeah.

Dr. Heather Finley  32:17

Well, I mean, I think it’s probably worldwide, too.

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  32:22

Because I come from America. Well, you know, I’m just like, Oh, my God, sort it out. Guys.

Dr. Heather Finley  32:28

I will say if I lived on the beach in Australia, I probably would be, you know, 10% 20% less stressed, maybe I don’t know, the sound of the ocean waves

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  32:39

is I don’t live right on the beach, because I don’t think anybody should live right that close to the ocean anymore with what we’re seeing, you know, but I’m about 15 minutes away. I’m more of a forest rainforests, bird, blah, blah, that kind of feeling? Yes.

Dr. Heather Finley  32:54

Which that’s like kind of living out in your own version of the country, like you mentioned earlier. So

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  33:00

that’s what I had to do. You know, it took me it took me a long time in my life to well, it didn’t take me that long. But it took me longer to act upon the fact that I realized I’m really not a city person. I don’t do well in cities. I grew up in the country in Germany, and I wanted to stick like, that’s my resource. Nature is my resource. You know, I feel much happier in nature. And so I’m just like, that’s what I’ve got to do. In my life. I can’t live in a city, I was so miserable.

Dr. Heather Finley  33:29

Yeah. Well, and I think there’s, I’m probably I don’t have any studies to quote off the top of my head. But I think there’s probably research to support that people would be happier living in nature, you know, like, just not being around the hustle and bustle all

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  33:44

the tests, they have actually a lot of great studies around that with hospitals and people windows that look out over a park versus Windows that looked over like something else. And you know, like all kinds of studies and the forest bathing studies, which is, you know, basically negative ions from trees and spending two hours in the forest can really boost your your T helper cells, which is an integral part of your immune system by like, 1,000% it was like mind blowing.

Dr. Heather Finley  34:17

Yeah, no, so interesting. Yeah, we always tell our clients spend more time outside as much as you can get light in the morning, spend time outside in the evening, regulate your circadian rhythm. Like you said, it’s so important. So just last question that I have for you. Since this is called the love your gut podcast. What is your favorite way to love your gut?

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  34:37

favorite way to love my gut? Or gosh, I have so many different ways. You know, but like, for example, I mean, I always you know, my smoothies, I love my smoothies. In the morning, I eat, I probably eat about 10 cups of vegetables a day would be you know, eight to 10 is what my goal is so lots of salads, I love my salads, I have the luxury of having an organic Farmer’s Market Fridays, which is today here. And so stocking up on all of that, and I, you know, I like a little gourmet fermentable or fermented veggies. So I, you know, for me, that’s just second nature. That’s the diet is all sorted. But then I also have a sauna, and I love walking. And so you know, lots of different things that I like to do for my God.

Dr. Heather Finley  35:30

Love it. Well, this was fantastic, super informative, and really helpful. And I really appreciate you coming on the show to tell us all this wonderful information. So if you would just tell the listeners where they can find you and how they can connect with you.

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  35:44

Yeah, so I have a clinic in New South Wales or in the east coast of Australia called the biome clinic. And it’s a virtual clinic where I have other practitioners that I’ve trained in the art of treating SIBO and other functional digestive disorders. So that’s where I’m where I see patients. And then the SIBO Doctor, is my educational website where people can find more information about the SIBO doctor, including my podcast, the SIBO doctor. So those are the main the main areas, and I’m on Instagram and Facebook and the usual stuff. Is there although you know, everybody’s sort of over social media a little bit, but I’m there.

Dr. Heather Finley  36:24

Yes, we’re all there. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. This was so great.

Dr. Nirala Jacobi  36:30

Thanks, Heather. Nice to Nice to talk to you.

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Please note that this episode is not a substitute for medical advice. And you should always consult your healthcare provider prior to making any changes.

I’m giving your gut a thumbs up because you just finished another episode of the love your gut podcast. Thanks so much for listening in to this episode. I hope it was helpful.

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