What would your microbiome say?


In this episode of the Love Your Gut Podcast, I talk to Dr. Kenneth Brown, about treating IBS with spore-based probiotics, the bacteria that contributes to gut symptoms, and developing Atrantíl.

Dr. Brown received his medical degree from the University of Nebraska Medical School, and completed his Fellowship in Gastroenterology in San Antonio, Texas. He is a Board-Certified gastroenterologist and has been in practice for over 18 years, with a clinical focus on inflammatory bowel disease and irritable bowel syndrome. His mission is to bridge the gap between medical and natural science. For over a decade, he has been conducting clinical research for various pharmacological companies. Dr. Brown recognized an unmet need for something natural that could help his IBS patients find real relief. After developing the only all-natural and clinically-proven answer for IBS and bloating for 6 years, Atrantíl launched in the summer of 2015. Dr. Brown developed Atrantíl to help those suffering from symptoms of IBS, which we now know are caused by bacterial overgrowth. He continues his researched in finding natural solutions based in science, with the intent of providing affordable, effective solutions.

Topics Covered in This Episode:

  • [05:10] Why Dr. Brown developed Atrantíl.
  • [12:09] Other bacteria in the gut that contributes to symptoms.
  • [23:15] The three ingredients in Atrantíl.
  • [26:40] Atrantíl Pro and spores.
  • [44:44] Atrantíl and Xifaxan.
  • [49:30] Client timelines for symptom improvement.
  • [54:04] Atrantíl in 8,000 stores.
  • [58:07] Dr. Brown’s favorite way to love his gut.
  • [60:28] My favorite way to love my gut.

If this episode has been helpful, hit me up on Instagram, and tell me about your experience!


  • For fibre-induced symptoms: Atrantíl Pro
  • To purchase Atrantil or Atrantil Pro visit this site and set up an account for whole sale pricing: https://us.fullscript.com/welcome/drheatherfinley
  • Treat your microbiome the way you would treat your brain.
  • Don’t open packages, get proper sleep, and exercise.


Follow Dr. Brown


  • “If you don’t have the right microbiome to break down these healthy foods, then you’re not taking full advantage of the food or even the supplements that you might be taking.”
  • “Your microbiome is what you’re eating.”
  • “Most Americans get almost all their polyphenols from coffee and tea.”


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Dr. Heather Finley, Dr. Kenneth Brown

Dr. Kenneth Brown  00:01

In nature, these polyphenols have very good antimicrobial activity. They it is what mother nature intended. And the poly phenols in general, are the huge class of molecules that make up that they, you know, they make up the colorful molecules for fruits and vegetables. But since we’ve launched, I’ve been working with PhDs around the world, some of them that are experts in our specific polyphenols, called tannins. And so if we were to think about this, you have a think of it like a building block. So you have a small phenolic compound, and then you put a couple of those together, and then that becomes a policy and then you put several these polyphenols together and that becomes a proanthocyanidin, which is like a bigger, and that’s what everybody talks about, like with our and blueberries and stuff. And then you take a bunch of proanthocyanidins and you put them together and you have this Tanner. So if you have a large stable poly phenol, like Sobrato, or chestnut, specifically to bracha was one of the largest most stable poly phenols that can withstand the digestive process, then we know that it can work in the lumen meaning where the problem is in the small bowel and make its way to the colon where then your microbiome if you have proper microbiome can break down those large phenolic compounds into smaller ones.

Dr. Heather Finley  01:23

Hey, welcome to the love your gut podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Heather Finley, I know what you’re thinking, how am I supposed to love my gut when all it does is hold me back. I thought the same thing before I found my own relief from my own gut health issues. I dedicated my life to getting to the bottom of my own gut issues so I can help women just like you transform theirs. Now I’m here to guide you through your own gut health journey. We do this through identifying your root causes and making sustainable and transformational changes. As a result, you can unleash your true potential. My goal is to empower you with the information and tools you need to love your gut so it loves you back right here on this podcast. Hello, hello, and welcome back to the next episode of the levy got Podcast. I’m really excited about today’s episode, you are going to learn a lot. I am interviewing Dr. Kenneth Brown. He is a gastroenterologist here in Dallas, Texas where I live and I have known about Dr. Brown for years because I’ve sent tons of patients to him, especially when he used to have an in person practice here in Dallas, Texas. But He’s also the founder of a product called atrantil. And today, he’s going to tell us all the science behind why he developed this product. So if you are a bloating sufferer or a SIBO sufferer, then this episode is for you. He’s going to share the science behind the ingredients that he chose for this product, how he uses it for clients and patients of his that have SIBO and he’s going to share about the newest product they have which is called atrantil Pro, and why he develops this product with another clinician actually and used spore based probiotics. And so if you are ready to learn a ton of science and listen to a super fun episode, then this is the one for you. So Dr. Kenneth brown received his medical degree from University of Nebraska Medical School and completed his fellowship in gastroenterology in San Antonio, Texas. He is a board certified gastroenterologist and has been in practice for over 18 years. With a clinical focus on inflammatory bowel disease and irritable bowel syndrome. Dr. Brown declared that his mission is to bridge the gap between medical and natural science. For over a decade he has been conducting clinical research for various pharmacologic companies, Dr. Brown recognized an unmet need for something natural that could help his IBS patients find real relief. After developing the only all natural and clinically proven answer for IBS and bloating for over six years. atrantil launched in the summer of 2015, Dr. Brown developed atrantil to help those suffering from symptoms of IBS, which we now know are caused by bacterial overgrowth. He continues his research and finding natural solutions based in science with the intent of providing affordable, effective solutions. So without further ado, I will let you listen to this fabulous episode. 

Dr. Heather Finley  04:32

All right, welcome back to the next episode of the love you got podcast. I am so excited today to be joined by Dr. Brown. Dr. Brown is local to me. He is a gastroenterologist and he is also the founder of atrantil. So we’re going to talk all about of course gut health but also atrantil and SIBO and all the fun things so Dr. Brown, thanks for joining me. 

Dr. Kenneth Brown  04:55

Absolutely. Heather. Thank you so much for having me on the love your gut Podcast. I’m excited to do this? 

Dr. Heather Finley  05:01

Yeah. Well, I’m excited to have you as you know, obviously you’re a gastroenterologist. So you see tons of clients every day with bloating, constipation, probably acid reflux, the whole gamut of issues. And so I’d love for you to just kind of set the stage for us. Why did you decide to as a GI doctor, develop your own product? And really what was the what was the starting point for that?

Dr. Kenneth Brown  05:28

So as a gastroenterologist what I really liked about gastroenterology, generally speaking, it’s both an intellectual field and you do procedures. And as I got further into the field of gastroenterology, I realized that everything ties into the gut, you know this completely that’s you’ve, you’ve developed a career with this programs, you’ve written a book, but we really weren’t taught that in our training. I mean, as an allopathic doctor, as I started getting into it, you start realizing how much is reliant you cannot be healthy unless your gut is healthy. So I started doing clinical research and clinical research was working with pharmaceutical company, excited to be on the front edge of new drug development and looking at all that, and that was probably about 12 years ago. It was at that time that I met Dr. Mark them Intel, who was the forefront of looking at how irritable bowel could actually be caused by bacteria. And so if bacteria are causing this, then maybe we’re going about treating IBS. At this time, it was diarrhea differently, and so became very close contact with him and then ultimately was one of the researchers that was in the original Zai Faxon study. And I’m sure you’re familiar with the drugs i Faxon, which was approved for irritable bowel diarrhea, six or seven years ago. And while I was doing that research, it was then that I’m talking to these researchers around the world. I’m talking to Dr. Pimentel. And he said, unfortunately, we won’t be able to help these people that are bloated and constipated. And the reason is, is because in his early data, he was showing that these people actually have bacteria growing. And it’s a type of bacteria. And we call it bacteria to simplify it, but it’s actually an Archaea bacteria that lives in its own kingdom. So our antibiotics like desigh faccin really are not going to affect that organism that is producing a gas called methane. And it was at that time that I’m doing this pharmaceutical research, we’re working with many different companies. And we were one of the leading enrolling sites for the originals I fax and study. And what I mean by that is, it’s me and my research partner, research manager, Brandy, and we enrolled more people in my one site than Johns Hopkins, Cedar Sinai, Mount Sinai, Harvard and all these other prestigious institutions. And what that says is how much it was just scratching the surface how much irritable bowel slash bloating slash constipation exists. And that don’t really don’t go to these ivory towers and these medical institutions, it’s just out in the community. And the community doctor like me that’s doing clinical research saw this huge unmet need. And that’s when I started thinking, wow, if we could think of something to actually help with the methane, and this Archaea species, the methanol, brevibacterium genus, and started looking back I’m originally from Nebraska. And there’s lots of legislation about trying to decrease the emission gases from cattle, the methane. So there was a lot of preliminary data in the cattle industry about what can we feed cattle that can decrease the Archaea and ultimately decrease the methane production so that we can decrease the greenhouse effects? So spend about five years after that looking at all this animal data and going okay, what is what are they using for these feeds. And through sifting through a lot of it, it really came down that the most effective things would be a combination of three, poly phenols, which we eat all the time, it’s in plants, these Polyphenols are what make vegetables colorful. And the data showed that if you in fact, it was a combination of all three, because one institution was looking at one, another institution was looking at another another institution was looking at the third,

Dr. Kenneth Brown  09:13

among many others, but that’s when I said, Well, what happens if we combine those three. And then when we combine those three, which had already been proven to be in the human diet, they’d already been proven that people have taken it before. So we knew that it was safe. So then I did a randomized trial. And we looked at this with people that qualified that were bloated and constipated. And we got significant improvement and definitely the bloating. We helped four out of five people in that trial. And then I followed that up with what I would consider the worst of the worst, where I was treating people that actually had failed everything else. And I mean, you know, I was a third opinion doctor. So it was all the pharmacologic agents, most natural substances, patients had gone to a

Dr. Kenneth Brown  09:55

naturopathic type doctor or a functional medicine doctor, and we treated them

Dr. Kenneth Brown  10:00

With this three polyphenol regimen that is now known as Tron teal. And we saw significant improvement with them. And in that case, we ultimately stuck with around four to five people getting better. So we knew that we were really onto something. And that’s how we ended up launching our Tron teal. And the numbers have actually kind of stayed pretty consistent with that, if taken in the right patient population, if taking it the right doses for the right amount of time, like we did in our trials, we really do help about four to five people significantly get better with their bloating, and ultimately, many get better with their change in bowel habits, not just constipation, but also mixed IBS and diarrhea. So it’s been a fascinating run, because in the beginning, I was very hyper focused on this one subset. And since then, we’ve realized the benefit of taking these polyphenols for overall health. And what it does to the microbial diversity, what it does to have these metabolites that your microbiome produces. What it does, when you start combining them with certain spore based biotics and such, all these other things have taken place over the last six years, working with scientists from around the world, it’s been a very exciting run, because we’re like, wow, this was such a great thing to do for this one small patient population. And now we may be talking about something much, much bigger. So super exciting and fun to be in the space. And I feel like we’re just the tip of the iceberg, about where we’re headed with the science in this.

Dr. Heather Finley  11:32

Well, I remember when the product came out, and I was like, What are these three things that are in this product? And you know, obviously being a science nerd kind of dug into the research and started using it with my clients and obviously had really good results because like you, I see a lot of the clients that have failed SIBO treatment or have failed as I Faxon treatment. And so, you know, they come to you desperate and hopeless and you know, Is anything going to work I’m so bloated, I’m feel six months pregnant by the end of the day, and to be able to provide them with a solution is amazing, especially when they’ve been suffering for so long. So just to back up a little bit. You mentioned the Murano bacteria,

Dr. Heather Finley  12:17

which is originally what you were targeting. So over the last several years, as you’ve learned more and done more research, how has that then expanded? What other bacteria are we looking at in the gut that are contributing to some of these symptoms that clients are having? diarrhea, bloating, constipation, et cetera? 

Dr. Kenneth Brown  12:36

Yeah, for sure. So the beauty of being at this sort of early stage because you gotta you have to understand that when a lot of my colleagues, a lot of gastroenterologist, don’t even believe in SIBO. And so, you know, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, and I’m sure your, your podcast listeners know exactly what that is. Simply put, something happens changes the motility of the small intestine and bacteria start to grow where they shouldn’t, it isn’t that they’re good or bad, it’s that they’re growing in the wrong place. And then when that happens, you eat the bacteria produce gases, what we’ve learned is the gases can be hydrogen, hydrogen sulfide, or methane. And there’s this interplay between the bacteria, that they share different things. For instance, we now know that there are

Dr. Kenneth Brown  13:27

Korea that let’s say the Nathanael brevibacterium, then uses the hydrogen soaks up the hydrogen, and through an enzymatic process produces the methane, which is CH four, so one carbon four hydrogens. So what we’ve learned is that in nature, these poly phenols have very good antimicrobial activity. They it is what mother nature intended. And the poly phenols in general, are the huge class of molecules that make up they, you know, they make up the colorful molecules for fruits and vegetables. But since we’ve launched, I’ve been working with PhDs around the world, some of them that are experts in our specific polyphenols, called tannins. And so if we were to think about this, you have a think of it like a building block. So you have a small phenolic compound, and then you put a couple of those together, and then that becomes a polyphenol then you put several these polyphenols together, and that becomes a proanthocyanidin, which is like a bigger and that’s what everybody talks about, like with our and blueberries and stuff, and then you take a bunch of proanthocyanidins and you put them together and you have this tannin. So if you have a large stable poly phenol, like Sobrato, or chestnut, specifically to bracha was one of the largest most stable poly phenols that can withstand the digestive process, then we know that it can work in the lumen meaning where the problem is in the small bowel and make its way to the colon where then your microbiome if you have the proper microbiome

Dr. Kenneth Brown  15:00

can break down those large phenolic compounds into smaller ones. For instance, Silvia Molina has a PhD in Spain and she published a paper, a paper where she looked at taking bracha, one chestnut, and she put it through a digestive process. And through

Dr. Kenneth Brown  15:19

putting it through acid, proteolytic enzymes, and then in the colon, she fermented it with a human microbiome. Then she did a gas chromatograph where she looked at the molecules that were then produced, she was, so she put in basically atrantil. And then she looked at what came out. And she just had hundreds of compounds, compounds that we’re very familiar with, actually. So this is kind of novel that nobody really talks about, for instance, she showed that quercetin is in there, she showed that green tea EGCG is in there, you’re within a Euro less than b chimeric acid, and it goes on and on. So these very large stable polythene hauls

Dr. Kenneth Brown  16:03

end up being smaller phenolic compounds that then end up allowing other bacteria to break them down that then produce these metabolites. I only bring this up. Because in allopathic medicine, everything’s about trying to find the molecule that you can patent. And time and time and time again, it just seems like Mother Nature can do it better. Which is why eating a proper diet is probably way better than just taking a pill. Because if you eat the proper diet, then it allows your body to get what it needs from it. And so that’s the exciting thing that you we almost don’t have to overthink it. If we give large stable poly phenolic compounds like to borracho, then the body kind of knows what to do with it, and it gets everything back to where it should be, or gets rid of, you know, the microbial narrowing known as dysbiosis, and allows it to become very diverse. And that is really one of the most important things is making sure you have a good microbiome. So there’s more that we’ve learned than just okay, we’re going to help you with your bloating and get rid of the buys. And now it looks like over time we can improve your microbial diversity, we can improve your metabolites that you’re very familiar with, like butyrate and propionic acid and, you know, short chain fatty acids and things like that, that people don’t realize that all has to come from something that your bacteria has to break it down. So

Dr. Heather Finley  17:28

you have to be present in order to be able to do that. 

Dr. Kenneth Brown  17:33

Yeah, and the right bacteria. I mean, I don’t want to go down rabbit holes, you got to kind of reel me in here, because this is all very exciting to me. And we’re and I’m literally like having zoom calls at like 6am because somebody is in Spain, or somebody is in Argentina. And we’re doing these things because we’re constantly looking at the new data and what’s coming out. So like Dr. Pimentel and his team, they’re really doing a great job of looking at human data. And they’re looking at breath tests and everything we’re working with the scientists, they can give us in vitro examples plus animal data, be, because that’s where they kind of came from, and we’re teaming up with the scientists, and I’m able to implement that kind of stuff in my practice, where I have a high volume practice from like, oh, well, let’s see if we modify this if we change this, and so on. So one of the things that you’ve probably seen that I definitely have seen, I’ll have patients come to me and they’ve eaten very poorly their entire life. And they just, you know, something happens January 1, and they’re going to turn over a new leaf and they decide that they’re going plant based or it’s, you know, Mediterranean or something where they’re just like, I’m not going to eat McDonald’s anymore. And then they really feel bad. They’ve tongue into jazz, and they’re just like, oh, my gosh, you know, it’s probably because if you don’t have the right microbiome, to break down these, what you would consider healthy ingredients or healthy foods, then you’re not taking full advantage of the food, or even the supplements that you might be taking.

Dr. Kenneth Brown  19:00

Everybody knows the term green tea, well guess what if you don’t have the right microbiome, green tea gets in itself doesn’t get absorbed, and it gets broken down into at least 35 smaller compounds. So if you don’t have the microbial diversity to break that down, that may be why a lot of these supplements are really hit and miss on whether they are beneficial in different studies. Maybe we should look back and go okay, we should take all these people with this microbial profile and give them supplements and see what happens. Because just because you’re taking Berberine just because you’re taking quercetin just because you’re taking green tea, and I can go on and on about the bioavailability of them. Every one of those requires at some point, your microbiome to break it down. And so these these people, I’m like, Well, great. That means that you have a very narrow microbiome, the longer you stay on this diet, if you can tough it out. Then the less gas you’ll have and ultimately you come out on the other end. Same thing like I want

Dr. Kenneth Brown  20:00

run a marathon and they run, you know, three blocks and get get winded? Well, that’s great. That means you’re out of shape doing that, and maybe they’ll run four blocks, maybe you’re on five, and then eventually you work up to it. And so the guy is no different than that perspective and beating it up for so many years. 

Dr. Heather Finley  20:15

So, no, we hear that all the time. Fiber hates me, I can’t tolerate fiber, I eat fiber, and I get bloated. So like, we see a lot of clients that are like, I just do better on a low carb diet if I just don’t eat carbs, and I’m fine. And I’m like, but you can’t not eat fiber. Like, that’s not sustainable long term. So yeah, it’s it’s a vicious cycle. Because it’s like, the thing that they need is the thing that’s actually causing them the symptoms. But now we know of these things that we can use as tools to help people to be able to digest the foods that they need to be able to digest. I think the old saying of like you are what you eat is really not helpful. It’s you are what you can digest, right? Like, if you can’t even digest the foods that you’re eating, then we’re kind of stuck. 

Dr. Kenneth Brown  21:03

So what what a simplistic term, you are what you eat, no, it should really be your microbiome is what you’re eating. So

Dr. Kenneth Brown  21:15

I gave, I gave, I think I’ve given another one. I’m part of this entrepreneur group. And I was in Croatia, it was really cool, because I was doing like a panel. And

Dr. Kenneth Brown  21:26

the part that I was talking about was the microbiome and aging. There’s so much data. Now that’s really wild, about how if your microbiome gets old, you get old. And if your microbiome stays young, then that actually all those metabolites that we’re talking about those metabolites are the things that keep you young, and those metabolites are the things that are the anti cancer, anti aging molecules. And so when we’re looking at this, my son while I was preparing for this talk, he goes, you know, those bracelets that everybody was wearing those silicone bracelets, WW, JD, what would Jesus do? People were at least the least they were when I was like it, but I was in San Antonio, that seemed to be like a rage, it was almost like a fashion thing. And so he’s like, You should get something that says, W W. YMS.

Dr. Kenneth Brown  22:18

And I’m like, What’s that? He’s like, what would your microbiome say? In other words, they’re going to Yeah, I thought was really cool, because I started thinking that I was like, yeah, so anyways, I have for my next talk that I’m giving, I actually ordered a bunch of those silicone braids, so I’m gonna give them to patients after they get their colonoscopy. So I’m like, what would your microbiome say? Like, if you’re about ready to reach for the most simple of things, now we know that like sucralose can kind of affect the microbial diversity. So if you’re going to drink that diet soda, what would your microbiome say? If you’re going to eat something that’s filled with preservatives? What would your microbiome say? You’re going to stay up late and not get a good night’s sleep? Your microbiome was on its own circadian rhythm. What would your microbiome say? So that’s gonna be my new family. Try and start this whole trend of WWI. Ms. What would your microbiome say? Hey, it’s a good conversation starter, you know, good, good party talk. So

Dr. Heather Finley  23:13

just to kind of back up a little bit in case people are unfamiliar with atrantil. What are the three ingredients in it? You talked a little bit about why you chose them. But what are the three ingredients that are in the product? And then I guess that, then we can talk about the new products that you have and why you chose to develop that as well, and what the benefits of that are, too.

Dr. Kenneth Brown  23:37

Yeah, it’s so the so after we looked at all these ingredients, so the backstory of understanding that I was trying to figure out how to get rid of the RK Bactrim ultimately decrease the methane. The three ingredients are Sobrato, Colorado, and that’s the one that throws everybody off. When I would go to meetings, there’d be herbalist and naturopath and they would come up to me, they’re like, I can’t find that. And that’s also why we have patents in I think we’re up to 2425 countries right now, because it was so novel, nobody’s ever done that before putting Sobrato in use as a supplement for a specific issue. So we have a composition patent on it. That Sobrato is the large stable tannin, which is both acid and base stable meaning that’s what we needed it to do was to stay in the lumen meaning not be absorbed where you needed it to not be absorbed. And it has all these bonds on the outside very complex. And so it works like a hydrogen sink. So it just soaks up gas. And it happens to have a the ability to break the Archaea bacteria wall. That’s what it does and mother nature so intrinsically, it actually can damage the Archaea bacteria. So the Nathanael brevibacterium Smith eyes the exact organism and the cattle data show that that’s why they chose that because it actually weakens the wall. That

Dr. Kenneth Brown  25:00

And I used horse chestnut. And the reason for that is if you look in the naturopathic literature horse Chesson is used for hemorrhoids and vascular disease. But something that wasn’t ever written about is it specifically works as an anti microbial. But it can block that enzyme that the Archaea bacteria produces methane with. So it’s kind of the one two punch. And then the third, which is the most common one that everybody’s heard of, is the peppermint. And that is, in my opinion, kind of the least important one, peppermint is effective as an anti spasmodic. So the rationale was, if we have an antispasmodic, it’ll actually slow the peristalsis for a moment so that these ingredients can work a little bit better. So it’s kabocha chestnut, and peppermint. Not peppermint oil. I wanted the peppermint leaf. So most of the products use the oil, the leaf because of the complete polyphenol count in the leaf. So that’s what makes up Ultron. To 

Dr. Heather Finley  26:00

Hey there, I know you’re absolutely loving this episode. But I have to jump in really quick and remind you that I have a quick, free quiz that will help you finally figure out why you’re bloated. In order to live a life free of discomfort, you need to figure out what the root causes that’s making you experience these uncomfortable symptoms. The easiest and fastest way to do this is by visiting Dr. Heather finley.co, backslash quiz. Take the quiz as soon as you can. So you can transform your gut issues and lead a happier, more vibrant life. Now, let’s get back to the episode.

Dr. Heather Finley  26:35

 I love it. And so now you have atrantil Pro which has spores in it. So let’s talk about that. Why did you add the spores? How are they beneficial to those that have any type of digestive issue? And I think going back to the what was it? 

Dr. Kenneth Brown  26:53

WW? Why M S? Is that? Why Ms? What would your microbiome say? 

Dr. Heather Finley  26:59

Why does your microbiome need spores? Why would we need to introduce spores? How is that beneficial? Because I think a lot of people think, oh, I’ll just go to Whole Foods, I’ll buy a probiotic, I’ll just buy the most expensive one, because that probably means it’s the best one. And the reality is that’s not how it works. So yeah, let’s talk about spores. 

Dr. Kenneth Brown  27:21

So let’s, we’ll work our way back to spores. But this is kind of what I tell my patients. I’m like, okay, so you went to Whole Foods, and you went to the refrigerated section, and you found these really expensive probiotics. That’s awesome. In fact, I’ve had this conversation with the VSL of people that sell a prescription grade probiotic, they come to my office, they’re like put these in your fridge, they’re so powerful that they need to be refrigerated. And I just say the one thing and I’ve done this with their scientific liaisons, and it’s kind of met with kind of a if the probiotic is so strong that it needs to be refrigerated.

Dr. Kenneth Brown  28:00

How’s it gonna survive in my body, if it can’t survive at room temperature, and not just my body, how’s it going to survive in my acidic environment in the stomach, and then the profoundly basic environment, that’s the thing that people don’t realize, the digestive tract, starts out acidic becomes markedly basic, very few things. It does that on purpose, because it, this is the way to sort of sanitize the food that we’re eating, and then start to break it down in this very complex, cool way. Because the pancreatic enzymes work in a basic environment where then they can start breaking everything down. So the whole idea is that for years and years and years, people would come to me on probiotics, and they weren’t working. In fact, so many people were coming, when this whole concept of SIBO was coming on, that they were feeling much worse on probiotics. And now there’s some data to suggest that probiotics can actually increase lactic acid levels and things like that. So there is scientific data to show that possibly probiotics, traditional probiotics could make things worse. And that’s where I started thinking, Well, what is the deal with these probiotics and now I’ve been to multiple lectures in my field, it now that we’re looking at these large meta analysis, and the consensus is, at six months, the all the studies combined, if you look at it, very few of them actually show sustained response to traditional probiotics. So we were the backstory to how we ended up with atrantil Pro, which is where we’re gonna get at requires a little bit of a storytelling if you don’t mind. I think that there’s as a business owner now as somebody that became a doctor and now has this startup. I’m fascinated when I meet people and go Well, however, Heather, how did you end up starting your practice? How did you end up saying your mission is that you’re here to make everyone better? Like that’s your that’s your statement? Like I’m like that backstory is just as exciting.

Dr. Kenneth Brown  30:00

thing as what you’re going to do forward. And that’s kind of why some of these things are kind of neat, because it’s always just look around and see what’s happening. So, pre COVID read a little while before COVID. We were at the IFM, the functional medicine meeting, and we were, as we had a booth for atrantil. And

Dr. Kenneth Brown  30:21

we ended up having a meeting of the megaspore people, Kiran Krishnan. Yeah. And so we brought our equipment out there, and he came on our podcast, and we just hit it off. So we were like doing an Airbnb and we just did an impromptu podcast. And have you met him? No, I haven’t met him, but I would love to meet him. He is brilliant, and charming and funny, and whatever. Just like everybody said that. Oh, man, you gotta meet Carolyn. So

Dr. Kenneth Brown  30:48

because he’s so dynamic? Oh, yeah. Learn from him, because he’s super passionate. Like, I mean, he lives microbiome. And during the podcast, he’s talking like that, like, like, you can watch the I don’t even know when we did it. It was a long time ago. And he’s talking about, you know, that whole concept of refrigerated probiotics and all this stuff. And then he gets into spore based and soil based. And then we ended up having a great podcast, and he’s like, man, let’s all go out to dinner. So we went out to dinner that night. And then he starts asking a ton of questions about atrantil. And his wheels started spinning and he goes, bro, this is something that we got to team up with, because your molecules and my molecules, Rican like work and then it felt kind of like a Reese’s Peanut Butter Cup moment. You know, your peanut butter, got my chocolate, my chocolate got your peanut butter kind of thing. And so it took a little while it took a couple years to make this happen. But we were meeting with his scientists, his microbiologist, PhDs. And the science is just absolutely brilliant on this. There’s three spore based probiotics, soil based bacillus quazi, Bacillus subtilis, and bacillus coagulants. Karen was like, Man, these spores, they can go with your atrantil. And they’ll make each other better. And as we started looking into it, I’m like, Oh, it doesn’t just make it better that this is a legit game changer. And here’s why. If you look at their research, on megaspore. And if you just tease out these three particular ones, they’ve got data to show that it decreases interleukin six and inflammatory, mean mediators, they’ve got data to show that it improves intestinal variability or intestinal permeability by decreasing lipid polysaccharide. transgression. And so what that means is leaky gut, like they’ve actually got data to show leaky gut, they’ve got data to show that it actually helps improve antibiotic dysbiosis. We’ve got data to show that we can decrease gas, we’ve got data to show that it decreases NF Kappa Beta, which is an inflammatory pathway, we’ve got data to show that it also decreases a different inflammatory pathway called TNF alpha. And so we’re like, wow, yeah, you guys do this. We do this. Oh, that is so cool. Here’s the killer thing. In the middle, we both do similar things. We both actually improve microbial diversity. We both actually

Dr. Kenneth Brown  33:17

decrease inflammatory markers, we both actually an inflammatory markers. Studies are really cool on this, like TNF alpha and different things like that. We have both been shown to improve the overall intestinal permeability. And so I’m like, Oh, wow, this is cool. So we both do this. And then over here, you do a little of this and we do a little of this. Well, then we discovered these articles that people have done and this is where it gets really exciting.

Dr. Kenneth Brown  33:46

When you combine these particular spore based biotics these particular ones have distinct characteristics living in the soil next to plants. They have evolved since the dawn of time to be together. So they have the ability to have an enzyme called a Tanis. Very few bacteria have the ability to break down a tenon to bracha to Berachos a tenon. So very few bacteria can do that. These particular ones, especially bacillus subtilis, has one of the highest teenage capabilities. What it can do is it basically rides with the atrantil. So the atrantil is the vehicle driving the spores down where it gets close to the ilium almost to the colon. And then there’s signaling that happens and the spores wake up. The spore form is the key to this thing. If we’re saying that the whole foods refrigerated probiotics can’t survive, then having a spore that can actually survive is the key to this because once it gets to the colon, it wakes up. It turns around it has its favorite food

Dr. Kenneth Brown  35:00

With that it’s been writing in and it starts proliferating itself, breaking down the tannin, and then it becomes smaller, molecular, poly phenols, which allow other bacteria to break it down. Remember when we were saying that the person can’t take any fiber and they feel really bad? Well, this is kind of a hack for atrantil. What we’re seeing is that people that can’t do that, if they take out Trump to pro we’re giving them the fuel for the bacteria and the bacteria is the key to unlock these polyphenols. A couple of quick scientific examples, which is really fascinating. There was a group that was looking at the same concept. And one of the

Dr. Kenneth Brown  35:46

Michael Pollan, the author Michael Pollan, yeah, P O. L. A N. Have you read any of his books? Yeah, yeah. And so he did the Netflix special, where he was talking about, like cooking, and all this other stuff. I really liked him his style of writing and speaking is incredible. She said that most Americans get

Dr. Kenneth Brown  36:05

almost all their polyphenols from coffee and tea, specifically coffee. And that’s where, yeah, that’s where a lot of the polyphenols come. If you go to a Mediterranean country, they’re gonna get a lot of the polyphenols from vegetables. If you go to Japan, a lot of the polyphenols come from tea and tea ceremonies. So these poly phenols we know improve overall health. So knowing that this group looked at coffee, and they said, Okay, well what happens if we put coffee through a digestive tract and in vitro digestive tract? So they’re gonna say, Okay, let’s see what happens with the coffee. So they put it through the gastric portion, small bowel portion, colon, and then they put it through a microbiome, a human microbiome, and then they checked, like Sylvia Molina did that I was explaining, they check the metabolites and the, all those other aspects. And so they looked at the coffee and went, Wow, okay, so these are the metabolites that had that happened. Then they took bacillus coagulants in here, and they put it with the coffee, and they made the coffee. After making the coffee, they checked to see how much of the spores survived. So they put it through this boiling environment. And 98.7% of the spores survived. Yeah, then they put it through the stomach digestion. 98.6% survived, then ultimately, in the colon, it remained 98.6%. What was fascinating is once they fermented it, all those metabolites, and all the other phenolic compounds, exponential exponentially increased, didn’t grow up a little bit. It wasn’t one plus one equals two, it was one plus one equals 100. So the spores woke up, they turned around, they used the poly phenols in the coffee, and they were able to produce all these metabolites, and they were able to produce all these different phenolic compounds with it. So that was super exciting. They’re like, Okay, well, clearly doing a probiotic. So then they took a typical lactobacillus the most common one, this study was done out of Japan. So they took the most common one in Japan, and they put it with a coffee and they made coffee, and then they checked 0% of the bacteria survived. Yeah, okay. That’s, that makes sense. We’re not going to boil. You know, the point, Alex. Yeah, exactly. And so then they said, Okay, well, let’s brew the coffee, put the probiotics in and then put it in the stomach, and then they checked to see how much survived 0% Then they put it to the small bowel separately. 0%. So, surviving this caustic environment. Now, to your very early question, they did not get into this in the study. And I have to kind of at least

Dr. Kenneth Brown  38:51

question it, because I understand the mechanism of the antimicrobial ability of these polyphenols. is it plausible that the polyphenols themselves destroyed the probiotic before could even be destroyed by the gastric acid or the or the proteolytic enzymes? So that was my own little thing. That was not their conclusion. Their conclusion was the traditional probiotic did not survive. And so looking at that study, then another group of out of South America, I believe, what they did is they took coffee grounds, and they’re like, Well, can you do this from the very beginning? And they did a very similar thing, but they said, okay, that group looked at the metabolites. Let’s look at the antioxidant potential. We want to know the ORAC score. If we do coffee, and we’re going to brew the coffee, and we’re going to brew it first and we’re going to see the metabolites and we’re going to do an ORAC score. And so coffee straight through a digestive tract. There it is, and it was very good score. It’s what polyphenols do. Then they put a spore based biotic the bacillus coagulants again and doing that then they showed that there was a tremendous increase in the metabolites but a

Dr. Kenneth Brown  40:00

A huge exponential increase in the ORAC or basically the antioxidant potential, which means that the metabolites are the things that are doing the beneficial things for us. So the combination of the two is the key right there. And then the bacillus subtilis has one of the highest Tanis capabilities of any bacteria out there, including spore based bacteria. So we have this molecule called the tannin and we have is perfect mother nature companion. That helps break it down. So if somebody can snap the Sobrato, and a couple smaller pieces, then your other microbiome, even if you don’t have the best microbial diversity stands a better chance of being able to utilize that as fuel, which stands a better chance of producing short chain fatty acids, like butyrate, and producing things that cross the blood brain barrier to decrease neuro inflammation. And so the whole concept of atrantil Pro, which now seems like a complete no brainer, all came about because Karen, and I meet here and and Mike and Eric, members of my team, were having some wine with him at dinner. And he’s like, bro, listen out, this is this is what you need. I’m like, for sure. This is what we need. So now we have our 20 Oh, Pro, and we like it’s available now for healthcare providers. Oh, I should say it’s available for healthcare providers only. So people like you, because we need people to explain the science on this. And it’s, you know, I don’t I don’t think that

Dr. Kenneth Brown  41:30

you can get atrantil on Amazon, you can get it in 8000 retail locations, this one is the one that we really believe requires a little bit of finesse. It’s not going to hurt anybody, but we want you to take it for the right reason. And we want people to commit to it. And we believe that doing that through healthcare providers is the best way to do it. Yeah, and we’ve actually been combining those two products for years. With our clients, we use megaspore and atrantil. together all the time any of my clients listening are probably like, yep, taken both of those things together. So yeah, it’s nice, because you can get it all in one. So it’s all in one. And what we’re what we’re seeing is and this now we’re just it’s it’s great that these, it’s fun, because you’ll look at an article and you’ll email a PhD, you read my article, I’m like, Yeah, this is cool. And then they’ll just so happy to talk about it, putting it together, the key is writing together so that when they start to wake up, they go, Oh, there you are. Not that taking the mega trio, and the atrantil if they kind of separate kind of thing, you know, but the chances are, if they’re gonna ride together, you’re gonna get that big kick and that big. They were having. I mean, my patient response has been ridiculous, where they’re like, these are loyal Artron to people for years. And I kind of feel like I’m,

Dr. Kenneth Brown  42:48

you know, I mean, I don’t want everybody forget about the baby. I mean, you know, let’s, let’s take some real pro daily people. So like me, I take our 2002 Every day, I take our 20 Oh Pro to every day. And for the last, since even in the beta stages, I’ve been taking atrantil on the regular if I eat anything that I think is going to be have gluten in it. I’m a little gluten intolerant. And we now know that it binds Gliadin and forms that gelatinous matrix around it. So it doesn’t you don’t it’s not as immunoreactive. And so anytime I’m going to have any gluten pop anatra until so I’ve taken six to 10 tablets of our Transfield for like 10 years, and I’ve added atrantil Pro for my daily regimen. So I think there’s I think there’s a place for both what I’m doing for my SIBO patients, is I have them take atrantil Pro, as like your overall gut health, but then take that regimen of atrantil to three times a day for 30 days. And that’s because when I did the original research was FX and we saw a tremendous difference in dose and in time, because it actually requires the, you know, the repeated removal of it and then feeding of the microbiome. And then eventually, when your microbiome becomes very stable, then the body will fend for itself. And it will release the butyrate and things to help with the migrating motor complex and which is why I think I have a lot of patients that we struggled and struggled and struggled and then a few months of trying and then you know trying everything under the sun and then all of a sudden, like you know what, I think I’m getting better. I’m slowly getting better. I’m slowly getting better. And I believe it’s because the microbiome starts to adjust and becomes better. Yeah. So are you still using dye faccin with atrantil or atrantil by itself or does it depend on the patient? It really depends on the patient and I do use a lot of Sai faccin but it’s really funny because insurance is just on not paying for it. And so it’s almost like I mean if I had my alright so you give me my worst patient. The

Dr. Kenneth Brown  44:58

I mean like the patient that

Dr. Kenneth Brown  45:00

really struggled. They flew in from someplace. And if I had like my Okay, so you really sound like you’re SIBO positive. I’ve got a breath test and we can the whole breath test discussion is kind of a moving target in its own right. And everybody has their opinions on this. I use breath tests. When people don’t respond. I believe the history is good enough for me, because when I treat people based on history, I get such a high success. Dr. Pimentel will say no, you absolutely have to do this.

Dr. Kenneth Brown  45:28

Dr. C. Bakker, naturopath will say we only use breath tests if it’s not that ideal is I can’t really afford to do that. I’ve a very busy practice. And I’m just seeing if you’re, if you’re another physician, and you’re like, Dude, I went to Mexico, I got sick. I’ve never been right since Mike. And he’s like, I’m a surgeon, I can’t step out to go to the bathroom. Like, yeah, I don’t really care what your breath test shows, we’re gonna treat you and then and then I tend to get good results. And that’s very different from an academic perspective. But it’s a real world perspective, which is where I’m coming from. So we’ve been sulfide Do you? Like what’s what are your thoughts on that? Do you treat it any differently than you would like hydrogen or methane? Or are you still kind of doing the same regimen? No, I’m actually still kind of doing the same regimen. So the methane is way harder to treat. The diarrhea is much easier to treat. Oh, totally. Yeah. And so yeah, the diarrhea is super, super easy, but much easier to treat. You look like a total hero. And so the constipation is you know, like the really tough one to treat. So I do use a lot of sigh Faxon. And I want my

Dr. Kenneth Brown  46:33

I don’t want my reps. Hearing that. I’m not going to say that because I think I think I write a lot of it. But I’m also limited by how many people can actually get it their insurance? I mean, we’re not talking like we’re talking with insurance $1,500 for 14 days, like this is egregious ly expensive. Yeah. Can’t do that. Yeah, most people can’t do that. So if you were to come in with a high methane, and I say, okay, and your insurance pays for everything. Looking at the allopathic data, I’m going to put you on xifaxan. I’m going to put you on Neomycin. I’m going to do a different dose, though we’re going to do 553 times a day of Zai, Faxon 503 times a day and Neomycin even though people will sit there and say well, what about, you know, tendonitis and things like that that had been associated. And it was actually Chris kresser that told me he’s like, I looked at the data on this, that’s only an IV dosing, because it’s so poorly absorbed, I’m like, great point. Okay, so I’m gonna go higher dose on that, with atrantil. And then some sort of pro motility agent when they go to bed. And that would be something currently the one that Cedars Sinai uses is Pakala pride, which is Mo Tegrity. All that being said, the only thing that really ever gets covered is Neomycin and atrantil. And I’m still having like a 90 greater than 90% success rate just with that combo, if taken properly. My biggest

Dr. Heather Finley  47:52

concern is that when the when people start talking to extreme diets during these periods, for whatever reason gastroenterologist, they, they actually sort of jumped on the FODMAP bandwagon without really understanding any of it. And they just say, just eat FODMAP I have actually asked my colleagues, I said, Hey, you recommended for that patient a FODMAP. What is that? But what I mean? Like, what is FODMAP? No, it’s just a diet. I don’t I don’t know, you’re supposed to do that when you have IBS. I’m like, it’s the fruit of illegal Sacramento, Sacramento. So it’s a you don’t even know. Yeah, he just gave him the FODMAP handout and said, Yeah, we we do know that William che, he published some data that showed if you stay on FODMAP for over three months, you start developing micronutrient deficiency. And so you can’t, you can’t just say get on this diet for the rest of your life. Because it’s going to end you’re gonna end up decreasing your microbial diversity and ultimately have micro nutrient deficiency. Yeah, talk about SIBO coming back, you know, like, your defenses are so low. And we’ve had clients come to us that have been on fotmat for four or five years, and they’re like, everything’s a wreck. And I’m like, Okay, first thing we’re gonna do is try to slowly work on getting you to actually tolerate foods, but those are the clients that are like, fiber hates me, I can’t eat anything, you know, I don’t eat any carbs, etc. So, yeah, it can be can be a mess, but Okay, so last question, or one of the last questions I have is, typically, what do you see as like a normal timeline for clients? You mentioned the dose, which is what we use the two caps three times a day for me feel is like the therapeutic dose for 30 days. And then obviously, you can do the maintenance dose, but typically, what do you see as far as symptom improvement for people and then if people don’t see symptom improvement, what is your next step? So my big thing is when people come back, and I’m like, Yeah, okay, so you took you, you took the atrantil. Did you take it two, three times a day? Yes. Many times the dosing is off, and this is an A knock

Dr. Kenneth Brown  50:00

kind of anybody, but this happens with pharmaceuticals. Also, I took a dose and nothing happened. Yeah. And I gave, I gave up, it was like, Well, I took it, nothing happened or better yet, I took it and I felt worse. And that could be, you know, like eating fiber. That could be a diet, that could be anything, but it’s really,

Dr. Kenneth Brown  50:18

we see that with, with pharmaceutical agents all the time. It’s like, okay, so I mean, the old blood pressure medicine, you take one dose and nothing happens, you’re like, it didn’t work, then you have this patient shows up, you know, didn’t work didn’t work didn’t work. But it’s they’re not really doing anything else and sticking with it. So typically, if somebody comes in, and they’ve had the full course, and I’m like, is your bloating better? And they’ll stop and they’ll be like, Well, yeah, I guess that’s better. Like, okay, so we’re heading in the right direction. But you don’t feel completely perfect. Then I start getting into, let’s look at the let’s get away from the small bowel. And let’s think about the colon. What’s going on there? Is this a functional constipation situation? And you’re probably very familiar with the questions you ask your clients, but then it turns into how often you get called to the bathroom? Do you feel bloated when you wake up? And that’s such a key thing. If somebody says, Look, man, I’m flat. When I wake up, and I dinner, I look six months pregnant, that’s still tells me Okay, something is going on gases are being produced. Somebody says, I wake up bloated, I go to bed bloated. I get a K up on him or an x ray. And they’re just completely full of stool, and they’re even there. They’re not even aware of it. And they’re like, I’m not constipated, I go to the bathroom every day, then you get into that really fun conversation of how much you go, what does it look like? And you realize that, yeah, and we can be having some pelvic floor issues where you’re having a bowel movement, but you’re not fully evacuating at all, like you are not having a complete bowel movement. And it’s been so normal for so long. One thing that is shocking to me, because it used to be only like in nursing homes, but now I’m seeing like young people with this. People come in with diarrhea, and they come in for a second or third opinion for diarrhea. And like we said earlier, I’m like, Man, diarrhea is easy to fix. And then you start talking to like, no, it’s so bad that I will have accidents. I will be like at the store. And I’ll have an accident. And I’m like, did you have an urge to go. And like it just happened like this is insane. And then you start piecing it together and you get an x ray, like I said, and they’re completely full of stool to the point where their rectum is so full that basically your body’s trying so hard to get rid of that stool, that it produces water, the stool works almost like an osmotic laxative. And the water is rushing around a hard boulder of stool, like, think of a big boulder in a river just going around it. And the rectum loses its sensation of that it’s full. And it’s like this has become your normal as your body doesn’t even know when it should go to the bathroom anymore. Like the triggers are gone.

Dr. Heather Finley  52:58

I’m always concerned when we have clients that are like I have diarrhea every three to four days and like so you’re constipated.

Dr. Heather Finley  53:06

So and they’re like, No, I’m not constipated. It’s watery. I’m like, No, you’re constipated. So yeah, the diarrhea is easy to treat, unless it’s an overflow diarrhea situation. That’s actually constipation, but Okay, so it’s what’s what’s really funny is the reason why I say that we usually see this in, like back in the day in nursing homes is because some nurse will call a doctor and be like, yeah, she had an accident and be like, Oh, well give her more Imodium put her on the modal and they just keep backing them up backing them up. And you know, my answer is give them a full bowel prep, flush them like they’re getting a colonoscopy. Let’s start from scratch. And it’s always a confusing topic to have with the doctor and the nurse. Yeah, we’re trying to prevent them from pooping their pants. Why are you wanting to give them a laxative? Yeah, yeah. Always interesting. Okay, so I mean, I’m sure everyone is like, where do I buy this? How do I get this? You said it’s an 8000 stores. So yeah, tell us where people can access atrantil And then the last question, the actual last question that I have for you is because this is called the love your gut podcast. What is your favorite way to love your gut? Okay, so the

Dr. Kenneth Brown  54:22

the way that the way to get atrantil ultimately usually get the best price on our website, or Tron till.com And I know it’s a weird name. That’s a whole different story, but I was gonna do but I decided maybe that’s another podcast for another time. It’s not that exciting was it turns out is it’s really simple. If you Heather, if you develop Heather’s anything and you want to name it. Drug companies have whole divisions where they trademark names and you cannot be visually or phonetically close to them or they will trademark hunt you down. And so everything we came up with were like, oh, because we wanted a unique name because I was

Dr. Kenneth Brown  55:00

Maybe it was hubris, maybe it was naivety, I don’t know. But I was like, Man, this is so cool. This is like, we’re nobody’s ever done this before, let’s, you know, let’s make it Xerox or Nike or whatever. And, like the 11th hour, the attorney was like, I want it to make it trental.

Dr. Kenneth Brown  55:17

You know, like, my, like, tranquillity, I don’t know, like, it’s like a play on tranquility for my gut. And then they basically said that we’re getting close to some drug company that had a patent or a trademark on something, so we had to add the aid. So then it became all Frenchie, and you know, Ultron to, which is gonna work out awesome, because we’re actually teaming up but we’re gonna launch in the EU has their own regulations. And we got a manufacturing facility we just secured in Madrid, Spain. So I can’t wait to go over there and start promoting it where people will be like, Yeah, that makes total sense. Because here we get, you know, that’s like, you know, where can I get the travel? Where can I get the Atlanta? Where can I get the, you know, over there, you know, we’d have to get on book author until say, you’ll get up until it’s going to be so much easier in Spanish. So yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s where the name comes. So So atrantil a t r a n t, I l.com. I’ll try until.com. And you can look at our store find her there. But we’re in 1000 locations, we purposely avoiding the big box for lots of reasons. So no Walmart, no CVS, no Walgreens, currently. But we’re really excited. Oh, they’re opening an heb right next to my office, and we’re already in HEB. So I’m like, yeah, so ATB Market Street, Central Market, if you’re in Texas, and these kinds of things, if you’re on the coasts, basically were like, most really respected, you know, Erawan, and, you know, places like that on the coast, because of all those retail locations, and many, many, many more. And then of Amazon, of course.

Dr. Kenneth Brown  56:50

And, as far as I tried to Pro that is physician only, I currently make it available on my website, so that my patients can get it if anybody wants to do that, but I would prefer that they go through you. So let’s get you set up with a pro account so that they can get it through you. So we’re gonna recommend getting our Toronto pro at Heather finley.com. What is your website? Dr. Heather Finley that CO. But I’ll put all the links in the show notes in case people are interested in getting it. And I know I have.

Dr. Kenneth Brown  57:23

I think I have a code for your website where they can get atrantil Yeah, so yeah. So we’ll we’ll we’ll put the code so us. So us Doctor finlays code for atrantil. And then, since you’re a healthcare provider, you can start doing our 20 Oh, Pro, which very few people are right now. Right now. It’s on full script, and ever since logics and whole script. Yes, typical ones. But you can we can get you set up with that as well. So I’ll try until the usual places I tried to pro specifically, not Amazon, not retail, healthcare providers only. Love it. Awesome. Well, what’s your favorite way to love your gut? You’ve probably the answer is probably obvious. But maybe well, you’ll surprise us? Well, my favorite way to love my gut is the same 8020 rule about health because what we’re learning is your gut, meaning when I refer to my gut, I refer to my microbiome, because that’s what I believe it is an organ, I treat it like my brain, my liver, it’s another organ. And so the way to do that is to

Dr. Kenneth Brown  58:32

eat properly. And in my proper eating is nothing fancy. I just try not to open any packages. Just don’t open any packages, avoid the emulsifiers avoid the preservatives, and get proper sleep and exercise. And we can go into crazy detail about each one of those. And how they actually improve the microbiome are really simple. Like, here’s a, here’s a great example.

Dr. Kenneth Brown  58:55

study just came out in my in this lecture, and I should we should come back and do that I should do the whole

Dr. Kenneth Brown  59:01

PowerPoint for you. Because it’s It’s nuts. That how correlated living long is to your microbiome, for instance, we know that as we age, our microbial diversity decreases. And as the microbial diversity decreases, you produce less beneficial metabolites like short chain fatty acids, and this goes across from a Drosophila fly all the way to us. The one caveat or the our Supercentenarians. So we’re looking at these humans that lived past 100. Their microbiome is that of a teenager, they’ve somehow maintained that microbiome. So how do you love your gut? You love you treat your gut.

Dr. Kenneth Brown  59:47

The microbiome as just an important organ as your brain? If you wouldn’t, if you’re going to avoid something for your brain, you should avoid something for your microbiome. Also, what would your microbiome say?

Dr. Kenneth Brown  1:00:00

How many give you a bracelet? Yeah, I’ve ordered I ended up ordering a bunch. So we’ll see. We’ll see how they look. I don’t know if they’re, I don’t know.

Dr. Heather Finley  1:00:07

I have this impulse thing where I’m like, Yes, I’m gonna order some. So I’ll let you know. When I come to the studio, I can get a bracelet. Oh, sure. And for sure, good conversation starter when I’m at the grocery store, and everywhere else. So

Dr. Heather Finley  1:00:21

what how do you? How do you love your gut now that I stole the microbiome card from you? I should know the answer to this question, because I asked people this question. But I think my favorite way to love my gut right now is getting proper sleep. I have an eight month old and so you know, that’s a challenge. And so prioritizing. Sleep is a big one for me right now. And I guess the next one would be trying to eat 30 plants a week. So 30 different clients a week is really my goal. That’s awesome. Yeah. Well, that’s great. eight month old, enjoy it. It’s I have a 17 year old going off to college in January. And I’m like, huh, that went quick. I know, I have a four year old too. And I’m like, how is she for? I don’t know. Like, it happened so quick. So I’m sure she’ll be 17 off to college before I know it. And I’ll be sad, but you know, enjoy it while I can. Yeah, exactly. And you won’t be sad. You’ll be loving it because they’re you. You did your job, right. Yeah, that’s true. That is true. Well, thanks so much for joining me today. This was great. I know the listeners are probably going to go back and listen to it and soak up all the knowledge that you shared with us and we’ll see you next week on the next episode of the love Europe podcast. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it.

Please note that this episode is not a substitute for medical advice. And you should always consult your healthcare provider prior to making any changes.

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